Random thoughts from deep in the mind

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Azmodeous
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Re: Random thoughts from deep in the mind

Post by Azmodeous »

And Jacen is back down again after 2/3 of a very good day. Sigh. I hate this for him, especially since I was the one who brought it home.
Puns
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Re: Random thoughts from deep in the mind

Post by Puns »

How would you feel if you were to find out that professional sports was rigged? Like, say you found out that nba referees fix the games for the teams that they want to win by calling fouls that aren’t usually called or are ignored completely on the team that the nba didn’t want to win? The players are still out there busting their asses, just like pro wrestlers, but the company decides that specific teams aren’t popular enough franchises to win against big market teams. Like, Sacramento vs Los Angeles, for instance. Duck, man. I think the nba is rigged. I know it at least WAS between 2002-2007 but I could go back and I’m sure I could find some kind of statistical anomaly somewhere since 07 aside from the major out in the open stuff.
Iamspiderman
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Re: Random thoughts from deep in the mind

Post by Iamspiderman »

Puns wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:44 pm How would you feel if you were to find out that professional sports was rigged? Like, say you found out that nba referees fix the games for the teams that they want to win by calling fouls that aren’t usually called or are ignored completely on the team that the nba didn’t want to win? The players are still out there busting their asses, just like pro wrestlers, but the company decides that specific teams aren’t popular enough franchises to win against big market teams. Like, Sacramento vs Los Angeles, for instance. Duck, man. I think the nba is rigged. I know it at least WAS between 2002-2007 but I could go back and I’m sure I could find some kind of statistical anomaly somewhere since 07 aside from the major out in the open stuff.
I’d not watch any of it ever again. And i’d be done with Fantasy Sports. Already watch enough scripted content.
Azmodeous
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Re: Random thoughts from deep in the mind

Post by Azmodeous »

RIP Iron Sheik. Damnit :(
Roxxxas
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Re: Random thoughts from deep in the mind

Post by Roxxxas »

Azmodeous wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 12:40 pm RIP Iron Sheik. Damnit :(
Dammit bubba
ICEMAN KING PATSON
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Re: Random thoughts from deep in the mind

Post by ICEMAN KING PATSON »

Puns wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:44 pm How would you feel if you were to find out that professional sports was rigged? Like, say you found out that nba referees fix the games for the teams that they want to win by calling fouls that aren’t usually called or are ignored completely on the team that the nba didn’t want to win? The players are still out there busting their asses, just like pro wrestlers, but the company decides that specific teams aren’t popular enough franchises to win against big market teams. Like, Sacramento vs Los Angeles, for instance. Duck, man. I think the nba is rigged. I know it at least WAS between 2002-2007 but I could go back and I’m sure I could find some kind of statistical anomaly somewhere since 07 aside from the major out in the open stuff.
There's been point shaving scandals going back to the early 1900s. Basically if someone can make money by "fixing" a sport, it's been done.
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Grundy
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Re: Random thoughts from deep in the mind

Post by Grundy »

Roxxxas wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 5:30 pm
Azmodeous wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 12:40 pm RIP Iron Sheik. Damnit :(
Dammit bubba
RIP Sheik. Now whose gonna help keep Hogan humble?
Puns
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Re: Random thoughts from deep in the mind

Post by Puns »

ICEMAN KING PATSON wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:06 pm
Puns wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:44 pm How would you feel if you were to find out that professional sports was rigged? Like, say you found out that nba referees fix the games for the teams that they want to win by calling fouls that aren’t usually called or are ignored completely on the team that the nba didn’t want to win? The players are still out there busting their asses, just like pro wrestlers, but the company decides that specific teams aren’t popular enough franchises to win against big market teams. Like, Sacramento vs Los Angeles, for instance. Duck, man. I think the nba is rigged. I know it at least WAS between 2002-2007 but I could go back and I’m sure I could find some kind of statistical anomaly somewhere since 07 aside from the major out in the open stuff.
There's been point shaving scandals going back to the early 1900s. Basically if someone can make money by "fixing" a sport, it's been done.
Yeah. The root of all evil has invaded every sport.

So in the 1990s there was definitely fragrant betting on the nba. Remember when Michael Jordan just happened to retire after winning back to back to back championships? That “retirement” was former nba commissioner David Stern’s call to get the FBI investigation into MJ’s degenerate gambling addiction stopped. When he retired in 1993, the investigation went away.

Shortly after that there was a gigantic scandal involving the referees. Out of 45 referees at the time, 33 referees were involved. At the time, the nba would sent the referees a check in the mail for the amount of their first class flights for their month of games. They’re sending these guys, completely tax free btw, around $11-15,000 to each referee for the month. The referees would downgrade their fights and get the cheapest possible airfare while providing the nba with fake invoices/receipts and pocketing the rest. They were making around $70,000 per year for their officiating, so this scam allowed them to essentially double their salaries. The nba eventually found out about their scheme and started taxing the checks before sending them to the referees.

1994 was the year that both Scott Foster and Tim Donaghy became nba referees. These two became best friends. Scott Foster is still a referee to this day, while Tim Donaghy is a disgraced nba referee found guilty of manipulating games he was officiating by making bad calls against specific players and teams in order for whichever team he was betting on to hit the over/under. He did prison time for this after an FBI investigation that was headed up by one of their best investigators, a guy who had an absolutely magnificent career as an FBI agent, Lawrence Pedowitz. Tim Donaghy would call iffy as shit calls on purpose. Say a player on the team he wanted to lose had a player step CLOSE to the out of bounds line, but not actually out of bounds. Donaghy would call out of bounds whether or not it actually was, and would defend his call by saying that it was a judgment call, which referees are there for. Sometimes they make incorrect calls. That’s just part of the job, nobody’s perfect, so it all falls within the realm of normality for the nba. Sometimes refs just make the wrong call. Using this method, Donaghy gave tips to his friend Jimmy Bautista, who was also a flagrant degenerate sports betting fanatic. Bautista would bet millions of dollars on the specific games Donaghy was refereeing. He’d bet the line, knowing Donaghy’s likes and dislikes as far as players and teams went and would win 80% of his bets.

To throw off the scent of Vegas odds makers, Donaghy would sometimes give Jimmy Bautista games to lose. This would cause the betting lines to fluctuate in the opposite direction He would give Bautista games that his best friend, referee Scott Foster was refereeing. Donaghy would call Scott Foster right before the beginning of games, right after games and sometimes during halftime too get his inside information and would pass it along to Bautista. There were at least 134 calls placed from Tim Donaghy’s phone to Scott Foster’s phone in a 5 month period, while there were only 13 calls that Donaghy placed to all other referees during the same time period.

On June 22, 2007 Lawrence Pedowitz informed nba commissioner David Stern about the investigation into the betting thing. On June 27, 2007 David Stern went to the television networks and wanted to renegotiate the nba’s television deal, even though the deal wasn’t up for another year. The nba received $7.4 billion dollars from the network before it got out that there was a referee betting on games he was officiating. Then David Stern leaked the news of the investigation to the NY Post, intentionally hurting the investigation by letting the referees know that shit was hitting the fan.

Tim Donaghy was painted as a rogue element by commissioner Stern, acting alone out of greed and avarice. Donaghy was set up to be the fall guy. Donaghy contended that the nba was rigging games by using what they called “company men” referees who acted only in concert with the wishes of the head of the nba. It doesn’t make nearly as much money for a smaller market team like the San Antonio Spurs to be all over tv as it does for the Los Angeles Lakers, the Chicago Bulls or the New York Knicks. These three teams are the three most valuable franchises in the nba, so it’s in the best interest of the league to push these teams, to use a wrestling term. And it’s a lot like wrestling in that the outcomes were sometimes predetermined before the players even stepped foot on the hardwood.

I have a ton more to write about this but my break is up at work and I’ll finish later.
Azmodeous
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Re: Random thoughts from deep in the mind

Post by Azmodeous »

The last NBA game I watched in full was a Miami Heat/Carolina Bobcats game from 2002 but this is a fascinating read Puns.
Puns
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Re: Random thoughts from deep in the mind

Post by Puns »

In 2007, once the fbi investigation had already star Ted, in order for the nba to not be relegated to the same realm as the wwe, nba commissioner David Stern sent his lobbyists to congress. They paid off members of the department of justice, the fbi and Congress. The DOJ and the fbi did everything that they could to keep the investigator, Lawrence Pedowitz, from testifying during the trial. If it got out what he had actually found and he was forced to testify he would be forced to tell the truth about his findings. If they kept him away from the stand they could basically say anything they wanted. To the investigation found out that Tim Donaghy was a degenerate gambling addict, only cared about himself and making money and that he couldn’t be trusted because he lied about everything. However, the fbi agent 100% believed Tim Donaghy to be telling the absolute truth about being the only referee engaged in the betting scheme. Donaghy contended that all the calls he had made to his best friend, referee Scott Foster, before, during and after games “was just a way to kill time.” However, Scott Foster was only spoken to ONCE by the fbi. They believed his story that he wasn’t involved in any betting scheme and that was that. They turned a blind eye to him and let Tim Donaghy take the fall.

Referee Scott Foster has had big problems with superstar players and would openly feud with them. It was a thing where is Joey Crawford refereed a game that Chris Paul was playing in, Chris Paul would lose. The last I checked it was something like 0-9 this year. But he isn’t the only referee who used their biases against specific players and teams to influence the outcome of nba games and playoff series. Referee Joey Crawford hated superstar, two time league mvp and routinely regarded as one of the greatest power forwards in the history of the game, Tim Duncan. I’m not sure why, but it was out in the open. During a game that Duncan’s team, the San Antonio Spurs, played against the Dallas Mavericks in the 00s Joey Crawford made a bad call. Tim Duncan complained and Joey Crawford assessed him with a technical foul for having the audacity to question the call. Referees use technical fouls to control the level of aggression during games, to stop players from complaining about foul calls that were missed or given to them, to keep things in line, basically. If a player is assessed two technical fouls during a game the player is ejected. So Tim Duncan goes to the bench after he is given the first technical foul. During a play in which Tim Duncan was literally sitting on the bench, not playing, Joey Crawford slaps a member of the San Antonio Spurs with a crappy foul and Tim Duncan laughs on the sidelines at the absurdity of the bad call. He’s not on the floor, he’s not being overly demonstrative, he’s just laughing. Referee Joey Crawford hits Tim Duncan with his second technical foul of the game and Tim Duncan is ejected from the game.

The referees are highly protected from scrutiny by the nba. During press conferences after games players are not permitted to discuss bad calls made by the referees. If they say anything openly criticizing the referees they are fined $25,000. This had been in effect for a very long time and is a way to keep players from pointing out the massive flaws in the system. Players still call out the referees all the time because $25,000 is really nothing when you’re dealing with the kind of money these guys are making now. Steph Curry literally makes $110,000 every single day whether he plays basketball that day or not. His contract is enormous. LeBron James is quite literally a billionaire. These guys have money to the level they can do anything, so a slap on the wrist like $25,000 isn’t a huge deal.

There is a player named Chris Paul who is starting to get older and his career is winding down. Over the past decade and a half he has been one of the best players in the league. He’s highly regarded as one of the best point guards in league history. He’s got the ability to see things that other players just can’t see because of his level of intelligence and can make passes and shots that most can’t. He’s really good, but he’s an asshole. He’s gotten into heated arguments with teammates, coaches, referees, etc. He’s an asshole and he complains all the time. For the longest time I couldn’t stand Chris Paul because of all the complaining he does during games. If he gets fouled and it doesn’t get called he whines to the referee. If he fouls someone else he complains to the referee. If he sees someone else get fouled and it isn’t called he complains. So rightfully so, the referees at times get tired of his bullshit. Here comes our dear friend Scott Foster again. Scott Foster got real sick of Chris Paul’s shit. He complained ALL THE TIME, every game, every play. So Scott Foster and Chris Paul developed hard feelings against one another and it came to a head in the second round of the 2008 playoffs. Chris Paul’s team at the time, the New Orleans Hornets, was facing the San Antonio Spurs. During the final game in the playoff series, game 7, Chris Paul was assessed two technical fouls by Scott Foster and was ejected. The Spurs went on to win the game and the series and moved on to face the LA Lakers in the western conference finals. Chris Paul openly criticized Scott Foster and was banged with a $25,000 fine. This became a sad routine over the next several years. Chris Paul was still one of the best players in the league and referee Scott Foster fucking hated him. So every time Chris Paul played and Scott Foster reffed there would be fireworks. Chris Paul would whine and get slapped by Foster with technical after technical. It would influence the way Chris Paul played the game every time this specific referee was refereeing his games. He would take different shots than he usually would. He would make bad passes, make bad fouls. It just appeared like Scott Foster was in his head any time they were on the court together.

And then Chris Paul became the President of the nba player’s union. He got to have an actual say in the collective bargaining agreements signed between league owners and the players and league itself. He was in on helping with rules changes and really has done a lot of good for the benefit of the players. But he still couldn’t publicly express his feelings about any referee or anything related to officiating or he’d get another $25,000 fine. Scott Foster didn’t give a shit that Chris Paul had become president of the nba player’s union. It didn’t mean anything to him because Chris Paul is still a whiner and him being president of the nbapa doesn’t mean he isn’t committing fouls during games and the integrity of the game is Scott Foster’s realm of expertise.

Fast forward a little bit to 2018. Chris Paul is traded to the Houston Rockets and is playing alongside that year’s league mvp and scoring champion James Harden. The Rockets have been a contender for the nba championship for the last 5 years, led by Harden and adding Chris Paul has made them one of the best four teams in the league. He finds himself in the western conference finals against the team that has been to the last 3 consecutive nba finals, the dynastic Golden State Warriors. Scott foster is tasked as one of the refers for the first game of the series. Before the beginning of the first game of the series Scott Foster approaches Chris Paul and reminds him of the time that he ejected chris Paul 10 years ago against the San Antonio Spurs and reminds him that he’s in charge and he controls the game out there. He openly and brazenly taunted one of players prior to the start of the game. The Golden State Warriors went on to defeat the Houston Rockets in the series and went on to win the nba championship.

Referees allow their emotions, their egos, their greed, avarice, likes and dislikes dictate the outcomes of the games. They use their power and influence with their ability to make judgment calls that can easily go one way or another based on things like perspective and the fact that no one is perfect and mistakes are made, especially is high stakes sporting situations where millions, hundreds of millions and billions upon billions of dollars are concerned. The nba is a collection of 30 franchises all worth hundreds of millions to several billion dollars. There is a lot of money involved and where there is a lot of money there is a lot of influence. Each team is run by a billionaire who owns the team and these billionaires are always breaking the NBA’s rules and regulations because the penalty, just like when players openly criticize nba officials, is a fine. A fine of a couple hundred thousand dollars for breaking the NBA’s rules to a billionaire is nothing. It’s factored into the cost of doing business. Billion dollar corporations are in constant litigation for breaking laws and in white collar crimes often the penalty is a fine. No matter how much a fine is to a company that makes billions and billions of dollars the fine is worth breaking the law because the law is only a fine, therefore it doesn’t factor into the equation at all.

That’s why these “company men” referees are doing what they are doing. Money. The love of money is the root of all evil. It’s invaded all aspects of and tarnished the sanctity and purity of the nba.

Even more to come.
Azmodeous
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Re: Random thoughts from deep in the mind

Post by Azmodeous »

I love being on vacation and being responsible for all the housework while other people decide to binge watch 23 seasons of Law and Order SVU...

And why is it that every episode of this show has to have a scene where the characters lament the legal limitations on police officers? "We could catch this rapist a lot quicker if it wasn't for those meddling civil rights laws getting in our way." It feels like conditioning the audience to accept the police trampling on their rights in real life.
Keith6601
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Re: Random thoughts from deep in the mind

Post by Keith6601 »

I'm right there with you. I've been working crazy hours the past two months between getting my store ready for inventory and helping other stores as well. Inventory was yesterday so it's my first day off and I've spent all day trying to catch up on stuff that wasn't done during that time. Hell it's my fault the cans weren't put out for trash and recycling this week when I came home at 11pm and left the next morning at 3am but yet she took a bag of trash to the can!

Let's not forget how when they do actually do one little thing like feed the dog it's followed by complaining how they're the only one that does anything! :lol:
GardenStateSaint
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Re: Random thoughts from deep in the mind

Post by GardenStateSaint »

Happy 60th Birthday to The Sandman!
Puns
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Re: Random thoughts from deep in the mind

Post by Puns »

Theoretically, if someone went to dinner and had poor service and left their waiter a negative tip, would the establishment have to reimburse the customer?
Roxxxas
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Re: Random thoughts from deep in the mind

Post by Roxxxas »

Puns wrote: Wed Jun 21, 2023 6:59 pm Theoretically, if someone went to dinner and had poor service and left their waiter a negative tip, would the establishment have to reimburse the customer?
I mean, usually if it’s that bad a manager is involved already knocking stuff off the bill and/or offering free stuff /gift cards
Puns
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Re: Random thoughts from deep in the mind

Post by Puns »

A coworker came up to me and said “hey Puns, I’ve been meaning to ask you for a while now, what are you mixed with? You’ve got such curly hair.” I told her I was Jewish and she said “ohhhhh.”

Then I got to thinking about it. She’s been meaning to ask for a while, so that means that she’s been thinking about what race I am for a while. That’s weird, right? This is legitimately the first time something like this has happened.
Roxxxas
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Re: Random thoughts from deep in the mind

Post by Roxxxas »

Puns wrote: Fri Jun 23, 2023 9:21 am A coworker came up to me and said “hey Puns, I’ve been meaning to ask you for a while now, what are you mixed with? You’ve got such curly hair.” I told her I was Jewish and she said “ohhhhh.”

Then I got to thinking about it. She’s been meaning to ask for a while, so that means that she’s been thinking about what race I am for a while. That’s weird, right? This is legitimately the first time something like this has happened.
Maybe she wanted to know more about your curly fry? :lol:
Keith6601
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Re: Random thoughts from deep in the mind

Post by Keith6601 »

......... Puns has a pigtail dick?
Puns
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Re: Random thoughts from deep in the mind

Post by Puns »

Yeah, it’s like that from unfurling and furling that bad boy up for years and years.
Iamspiderman
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Re: Random thoughts from deep in the mind

Post by Iamspiderman »

I thought Jewish people were not a race?
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